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I like to play long games in Sins, but after a while, the AI just seems to give up.
Published on November 28, 2009 By Mromson In Sins Diplomacy

What I would like is simple - I'd like to have an option where the AI is relentless and doesn't give up. Regardless of how powerful I get, it won't give up, perhaps it'll even scale up its difficulty when possible. Because even when I'm playing against the toughest AI (where the AI even cheats on resources <.<) it all slows down to a stop once I've built myself up well enough. What's oddest of all, even when I'm playing 10 FFA, the remaining 9 opponents don't seem to gang up on me - leaving me to just pick them off one by one.

It's still early beta, so I figured I'd make myself heard.

I wish for VERY LONG games where the AI is a challange down to it's last Colony Ship.


Comments
on Nov 28, 2009

This would be nice, also make them better at using their resources, in said games the AI often has more money in the bank then I do and it does nothing,

on Nov 28, 2009

Maybe they limit their spending based on metal or chrystal income.  If this is the case and they have a lot of bank, then they should use it to buy the other resources they need.  But none the less, I agree completely.  Right now a game of sins has a definite tipping point.  Once you pass that point, the game isn't as fun anymore.

on Nov 28, 2009

 

You say that the AI won't gang up on you.  Do you have the game set to Locked Teams with each AI being on its own team?  Try playing the 10 man FFA in unlocked teams and see what happens.  (At least in the past they would all end up ganging up on you.)  You could also just set the game to 9 v 1 with locked teams with you being the one.  Another idea would be to design custom maps in Galaxy Forge where your starting position is just disadvantaged compared to the AI.  Also, consider playing it without Entrenchment; the AI doesn't do real well with the starbases.  If you've mastered beating the AI at the hardest levels, then the other thing you might want to consider is whether you are ready to move up to playing against human opponents.  (I guarantee you that you will find that much more challenging than anything the AI can throw at you.)

on Nov 29, 2009

DirtySanchezz
 

You say that the AI won't gang up on you.  Do you have the game set to Locked Teams with each AI being on its own team?  Try playing the 10 man FFA in unlocked teams and see what happens.  (At least in the past they would all end up ganging up on you.)  You could also just set the game to 9 v 1 with locked teams with you being the one.  Another idea would be to design custom maps in Galaxy Forge where your starting position is just disadvantaged compared to the AI.  Also, consider playing it without Entrenchment; the AI doesn't do real well with the starbases.  If you've mastered beating the AI at the hardest levels, then the other thing you might want to consider is whether you are ready to move up to playing against human opponents.  (I guarantee you that you will find that much more challenging than anything the AI can throw at you.)

I never lock teams, so my point stands. I am well aware that Human Players can do a far better job than AI, but that ain't my point. I am not that interested in playing against players due to the giant timesink I like to put into my games - at best I'll play co-op with a friend or two, My point is that when I play 10 FFA (Unlocked) against the AI it just seems to give up around the time when I am close to maxing up all my research. Sure, it will keep attacking (never more than 1v1) - but it willl always be the same weakass group that doesn't even put a dent into my star base shields. When I've wiped out 2 of the 9 Extreme hard AI's, the remaining 7 should go "wait a second... DIE!" instead of just rolling the same old bullshit. The game just ceases to be fun at that point...

on Nov 29, 2009

Sadly this is true, the few 9 unfair vs 1 that I have played (its murder on my system so I rarely play it) while the beginning is insane and heart pumping, once you get some sort of solid defenses up and slaughter the first wave of AIs they seem to just roll over and it becomes nothing more than clean

on Nov 29, 2009

The best way you could improve the end-game AI is to make it a better attacker.  The biggest problem right now is that it throws itself face first at whatever defense you have waiting for it, which in most cases is just a plain stupid way to approach a starbase or even a fleet in good position.

 

on Nov 29, 2009

Ive been an advocate for better AI from day one. Some of whats been said has merit.

In my games 9 of 10 times if i play multiple AI's with unlocked teams (even in diplomacy beta). All of the AI's will team up against me sooner or later. It doesnt happen all of the time, but it does happen. This is a good thing IMO.

Some of you guys here have been playing from day one, and are masters of the game. So the new Ruthless, and Relentless AI's are still pushovers. You are ready for "godlike", or ludicrus AI. perhaps an AI that not only cheats, but insta-researches as well.

The Pirates need to be much more of a challenge other than fodder for your cap ship levels.

You are correct about one thing. The late game AI is kinda stupid no matter what setting you use. I would have 4 starbases and one small fleet guarding a star (Yes you can build 4 starbases at a star). That would be the only defense i need to build untill the AI researches insurgency. Phase, and Psi AI's are total pushovers without insurgency.

The AI never attacks you with its entire fleet. It never musters a force large, and diversified enough to overpower your forces despite being more than capable of doing so.

It never coordinates its attacks with its allies. If 2 allied AI factions show up in my grav wells simultainiously its nothing more than coincidence. Those are the only times i do have a challenge, because i am almost overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

The AI STILL almost never avoids defenses to reach objectives. Only ships ive seen trying to avoid turret fire are the siege frigs. All others make a B-Line straight through the gauntlets of mines, turrets, and starbases to get to a target on the other side of the grav well, or die trying. They still do it in Diplomacy, and i facepalm every time i see it. Same with grav wells that ships are trying to bypass. AI will go right through the defenses line of fire instead of trying to stay out of their range, and jump away.

The AI would be so much better if it..

AI sees what you have with scouts. Including numbers of what you have, and it prepared, and countered accordingly. A reactive AI. Instead of AI acting like this.. "Oh i think ill build this...Oh i think ill build that... Oh i think ill research this"

Attacked you not with piece meal forces 1/3rd the power of your fleet/defenses, but with a large diversified force that can match or best your fleets, and it coordinated attacks so as to not "trickle" these forces in, and get them slaughtered by the porc (as in porcupine, an old total annihilation term for heavily defended base) you have in your grav wells.

If the ships other than the siege frigate reacted the same as the siege frig to planetary defenses. Especially when trying to bypass the grav well, and reach the other side.

The AI needs to build its superweapons, and advanced defenses. If the Tec AI can research Insurgency then all factions should be able to build their superweapons to add the "oh crap" factor in.

Ships need to stop making B-lines for the nearest asteroid even though its on the opposite side of the fight only to get  themselves stuck, and destroyed :/ Nothing annoys me more than watching ships move stupidly towards these rocks, and getting all bunched up.

on Nov 30, 2009

Mromson

I never lock teams, so my point stands. I am well aware that Human Players can do a far better job than AI, but that ain't my point. I am not that interested in playing against players due to the giant timesink I like to put into my games - at best I'll play co-op with a friend or two, My point is that when I play 10 FFA (Unlocked) against the AI it just seems to give up around the time when I am close to maxing up all my research. Sure, it will keep attacking (never more than 1v1) - but it willl always be the same weakass group that doesn't even put a dent into my star base shields. When I've wiped out 2 of the 9 Extreme hard AI's, the remaining 7 should go "wait a second... DIE!" instead of just rolling the same old bullshit. The game just ceases to be fun at that point...

What if you did this?  Set it to Locked Teams.  You are on Team 1.  The 9 AI are on Team 2.  It's a guaranteed 9 v 1.

on Nov 30, 2009

I have played a game before where I locked the teams down to me vs 9 AI, and the AI still fought with each other.  I was still able to pick them off one at a time.  The game was essentially over after I had 5 planets ( 100+ planet 5 star system).

The AI needs to manage captial ships better.  As an example, the AI has the capability to build 6 ships but only builds 1, what gives with that?

on Dec 01, 2009

DirtySanchezz

Quoting Mromson, reply 4
I never lock teams, so my point stands. I am well aware that Human Players can do a far better job than AI, but that ain't my point. I am not that interested in playing against players due to the giant timesink I like to put into my games - at best I'll play co-op with a friend or two, My point is that when I play 10 FFA (Unlocked) against the AI it just seems to give up around the time when I am close to maxing up all my research. Sure, it will keep attacking (never more than 1v1) - but it willl always be the same weakass group that doesn't even put a dent into my star base shields. When I've wiped out 2 of the 9 Extreme hard AI's, the remaining 7 should go "wait a second... DIE!" instead of just rolling the same old bullshit. The game just ceases to be fun at that point...
What if you did this?  Set it to Locked Teams.  You are on Team 1.  The 9 AI are on Team 2.  It's a guaranteed 9 v 1.

As Hobbes2oo pointed out - it'll still just be just like 10 FFA, only that the 9 NPC don't attack eachother.

on Dec 01, 2009

Hobbes2oo
I have played a game before where I locked the teams down to me vs 9 AI, and the AI still fought with each other.  I was still able to pick them off one at a time.  The game was essentially over after I had 5 planets ( 100+ planet 5 star system).

The AI needs to manage captial ships better.  As an example, the AI has the capability to build 6 ships but only builds 1, what gives with that?

Were the AI locked to being on the same team though?  There would only be two teams in the game--you--and one team consisting of the 9 AI.  I know I sound like a broken record and a shill (which is true), but if you're tiring of playing against the AI, have you considered the option of playing it in online multiplayer against human opponents?  I guarantee you that you won't roll over them.

on Dec 01, 2009

Please Sanchez, everyone who posts on this forum knows about multiplayer. And yet we want AI.

on Dec 01, 2009

I have no interest in starting a flame war    I have played one LAN game but I don't get very excited at the idea of playing multiplayer games.

DirtySanchezz - Yes the game was locked down to team one (me) vs team two (9 AI).  They still fought with each other.